Transcript of podcast episode, with CPA Australia
Podcast length: 42:39
Cate: Today we are joined by Moon from CPA Australia. Welcome, and thank you for joining us.
Moon: Hi Cate, hi everyone. Thank you so much for having me.
Cate: It’s really nice to have you on the podcast today. Would you mind just telling us a little bit about what you do at CPA Australia, and I guess also, what is CPA Australia?
Moon: Of course, so, as you mentioned Cate, I’m Moon and I’m one of the Senior Business Development Managers at CPA Australia. CPA Australia stands for Certified Practicing Accountants, and we are a global professional accounting body and with over 168,000 members in over 100 countries. We're one of the world's largest accounting bodies. Essentially, you do the CPA programme with us to become a qualified accountant.
Cate: I don't think I realised quite how many members you have, and you have a real presence all over the world as well.
Moon: Yeah, absolutely. So, we have over 20 offices worldwide and that really reflects our global reach. I’m here in the London office, but we also have offices in, for example, 4 offices in mainland China, we've got an office in Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, all over Australia and New Zealand. Yeah, so we're really global. Our qualification is internationally recognised so no matter where you are in the world, no matter which country you want to settle down in eventually, if you're a CPA, it will be internationally recognized and it will help you with your career and making that next step in your career.
Cate: That's great, and I think that leads me on to one of the things that I was going to ask about is, obviously you're a professional accreditation body and I think some students might wonder how that can help them both while they’re a student, but also while they're transitioning into the world of work. So, if a student wanted to become an accountant whether, I would assume that most of those students would be studying accountancy but perhaps not all of them, but if they want to be an accountant, how can CPA Australia help them both whilst throughout university, but also as they transition into the world of work?
Moon: CPA we’re really engaged with students, even before they've graduated. We really work closely with universities to really promote the accountancy sector and a career in accountancy and all the benefits that it brings. At CPA we do a lot of events, we do webinars, CPD webinars where we have speakers come in and talk about certain topics and relevant topics. We have a wide range of topics that speakers who are experts in their field talk about, for example, cryptocurrency, digital finance, ESG, anything that's really pertinent and relevant to accounting at the moment. So, I would really encourage students to get in touch and join some of those webinars.
Equally, we do things CV workshops and LinkedIn webinars and things that to really help with employability after graduating. So, although after graduating CPA is a designation or a programme that you would enrol in, we're really passionate about promoting accountancy as a career and supporting students to become the best accountant that they can be. We're really active and really engage and help students in that way.
Cate: That’s fantastic and I’d imagine that also, given just quite the breadth of expertise amongst your members, but also the breadth of membership globally, means that you're not just there for students who have studied in the UK and are planning on staying in the UK, but you're also able to help and support students who are looking to go to a different country after their studies and help them settle in with an accountancy network there. Would you say that's accurate?
Moon: Yeah, absolutely. We have a really good presence of members in the UK and Europe, but I would say, Australia, New Zealand and specifically Asia, in terms of Southeast Asia, Asia Pacific, Hong Kong, China, Malaysia, Singapore, those regions are where our brand is at its strongest. We have over 600 employers who recognize our designation and our programme as being rigid and academically rigorous to train their future accountants, essentially. So, we have really good employer relationships over there.
Certainly, if you're an international student who is thinking of moving back to your home country, for example, if you are Chinese student and you're thinking of moving back to China, then I would really consider doing the CPA Australia program just because of how recognized it is over there and the presence that we have over there. As I mentioned, for example, in China, we have four offices and that really showcases how many members we have over there, and also the network and also the opportunities that we can offer in terms of, I said, we have close relationship with employers so we can offer internship opportunities and things that, for example, PwC or Deloitte and other big names. Equally, if you don't want to work for the Big Four we've got lots of close relationships with smaller firms and mid-tie firms as well. I would really consider CPA; it doesn't matter if you're a British student or international student. We're really diverse in terms of who the program is available for.
Cate: It's nice also to hear that it's internationally recognized, because I think so many of our students from the UK, as well as our international students, are interested in a global career and we’ll talk a little bit more about that when we speak to Fabiana later in the podcast but, I think it's really important to note that if you want a global career, there are options in lots of different sectors. I think perhaps now more than ever. We hear a lot in the news about the accountancy shortage that's happening right now, and I think that probably means that there might be an abundance of opportunities overseas, elsewhere.
Can you tell us a little bit more about the accountancy shortage and what that means for students who are currently studying accountancy?
Moon: Yeah absolutely. So, as many of you know, accountancy plays a vital role in the business world. It's really important that the financial sector tracks and retains the talent it needs for it to be able to cope with the demands and regulatory requirements the industry demands. There's been a lot of research and study in terms of specific skills gaps, for example, a recent survey suggested that 27% of staff indicated that finance professionals were one of their biggest skill shortages. I think the pandemic has exacerbated that, because obviously we've had restrictions in terms of international travel so certain countries that would bring in skills from other countries, there's been restrictions on that. Certainly, in Australia and New Zealand, for example, we've really seen that there's a skill shortage in accountancy.
Also, with everything that happened with the pandemic and the economy, it’s become really clear that having a stable career is really important, especially because there are things that can happen. No one thought that COVID would happen, and then it did, and it obviously affected a lot of livelihoods and accountancy has really tested time in terms of how stable it is, and how you can always get a job if you're an accountant. It’s just such a flexible, such an adaptable and such a respected profession. You're always going to be in demand, and for that reason I would certainly consider a career in accountancy.
There are also specific skill shortages within accountancy as well. Technology and digitalization is evolving. There are a lot of things in the past that accountants were maybe expected to do, manual tasks, for example, bookkeeping and things that, you've now got technology and AI that does it for you. So, the skills that are needed in an accountant have evolved as well. The CPA programme really takes that into account. We're constantly seeing, are we producing the accountants of today and tomorrow, are we keeping up with the skills that are needed for our accountants to have a successful career.
So, for example, we recognize that having digital skills is really important, so we’ve got a module on digital finance, for example, to help prepare future accountants for work. Another thing that we've got a huge skill shortage amongst accountants is people skills. CPA is really proud to go beyond just the numbers. Accountants, in the past they've maybe had a bit of a reputation for just crunching numbers, being introverted, in the background, doing all the financials. No, there’s so much more to accountancy than that, and when you guys listen to Fabiana as well she'll explain that. It's really important to have maintained relationships and what are considered the soft skills, like leadership, communication skills, interpersonal skills, business skills, strategy skills.
Our programme goes beyond just the numbers. It teaches you those business skills, those strategy skills. Even in our practical work experience requirement, we want you to demonstrate that you are applying those skills in your practical work experience and then we also have modules on it as well.
Cate: That's great, and I think also it's really important, so many of the students who are studying right now are going into jobs or are considering going into jobs that won't exist in 10, 20 years due to technology. I think it's really important for us as career services and it's really important for yourselves as an accrediting body as well, to make sure that what we are preparing individuals for is their future career. So, it's creating workers for the future and, like you say, it's really important. The pandemic taught us more than anything that having a stable career is so important to so many people. Some people are very fortunate in that they have that mindset that they can be much more spontaneous, but for so many people, especially when you're coming out of university, a lot of students have some degree of debt, and a lot of students have other responsibilities, or they want to get on the property ladder. Whatever your financial responsibilities might be, the pandemic has taught us that it's important to consider job security and career security and look at something that is going to be a stable career.
But that said, we're also very aware that technology is evolving at such a rapid rate that many of the technical jobs are being replaced by AI, so we need to look at ways in which we can prepare our students for jobs that aren't going to be replaced and that's where, like you say, the soft skills come in and the people skills, the interpersonal skills, the analytical thought and strategic thinking, all of these things are really important for planning students for the future.
Obviously, like you say, it sounds like if you're interested in a career in accounting with this global accountancy shortage, now more than ever there are an abundance of opportunities, but also really specific. So, there are opportunities for you to get involved in lots of different niche types of accountancy as well.
It's been really interesting to hear from you and hear about the way that accountancy as a profession is changing and what CPA Australia is doing to support that and prepare students for that work life that they're going into and it's fascinating as well, because for us it's really nice to hear that you're offering opportunities for students to hear from professionals who are doing those jobs, but also offering skill sessions and opportunities for students to get involved and learn more about the career path that they're planning on going into.
Before I let you go, what tips or advice would you give to current students who are interested in a career in accountancy? Further to that, specifically those who are interested in a global career and accountancy?
Moon: One of the advice that I give to students, not just students considering a career in accountancy, but definitely even more so for those interested in accountancy, is networking. I would say attend everything that you can attend, especially when there's speakers who are attending specifically. Also have an open mind in terms of what you want to do with a career in accountancy. I think everyone at first, they think that they want to become an accountant and work for the Big Four. But there's so much more to accountancy than just working for the Big Four. It's really important to have an open mind. Try and delve into every type of specialty that you can and that you get the opportunity to do, whether that's through internships, or paid work experience, for example. Don't just assume that you're going to become a management accountant, because when you actually go in and do your work experience you might realise that you don't really like management accounting.
Don't think that you're going to be an auditor. I would say, try a bit of everything to really see where your niche is, what you're enjoying, what you're really good at because it's quite easy to just go into accounting and just think, oh, I’m going to work for the Big Four, I’m going to be management accountant and that's all I’m going to do. There's so much more, it's a huge career, it’s a huge field. We have CPA members in pretty much every industry, whether that's SMEs, whether that's the Big Four, whether that's working in media, whether that's working at universities as lecturers.
So, I would say have an open mind and definitely network, network, network. It's really important in any profession to be able to have those contacts, because you never know when you may need their advice whether, by getting a mentor, for example, or whether they’re in a certain field that you want to get into so you could ask them for advice, or they can maybe support you in terms of getting any work experience. I do remember what it was like being a student and not necessarily having those contacts, so building those contacts by going to those events is always really, really helpful. Yeah, those would be my top tips.
Cate: That's fabulous. Thank you so much Moon, and I think just to reiterate the field of accountancy is absolutely massive and one thing that I’ve certainly learned through speaking to yourself and my research into the field, is that there are opportunities to go outside of the Big Four and that's not at all to put down the Big Four, because there are opportunities in abundance within the Big Four, if that's where you find your niche and you find your interest lies. But there are also ample opportunities, like you say, in lots of different industries to combine your passion with your work as an accountant. So, I think it's really important, I think that's really sound advice for students to network and explore every option and take every opportunity to find out what areas fit best with them.
Moon, it has been so lovely to talk to you and thank you so much for your insight into the field of accountancy but also into how CPA Australia can help students who are looking to go into accountancy and how they can how you can help students as they transition into that world of work. Thank you very much for your time, it's been really lovely speaking to you.
Moon: Absolutely, thank you so much for having me. It's been an absolute pleasure and I’d also to say that anyone who's listening to this podcast and wants to talk a bit more about a career in accountancy and wants to find out a bit more about CPA Australia, I’m very happy to leave my contact details, so please do feel free to reach out and I’d be very happy to have a chat and offer any advice or support that I can.
Cate: Lovely we will pass along those contact details, that's very generous. Thank you so much.
Next up on the podcast, we will be talking to a CPA Member, Fabiana, and she'll be telling us all about her career journey, which is not a non-traditional one, but not one that you hear of very often when you think of accountancy.
So, welcome Fabiana. Thank you so much for joining us.
Fabiana: Thank you Cate, thanks for inviting me. I’m very excited.
Cate: It's really nice to have. While we get started, I was just wondering, can you tell me a little bit more about yourself, like what did you study at university, where did you study and what you're currently doing now in your job?
Fabiana: Okay yeah absolutely no problem. So, my name is Fabiana. I’m currently working in the global office of Chanel in London. My background is Chinese. I was born and raised in China. I speak Chinese, Mandarin and English. I completed my bachelor's degree in China, so I was actually doing a couple of degrees at that time.
Number one is International Business and number two is Accounting. So, after I completed my bachelor's degree, I decided to move to Australia to pursue my master's degree. So, that's a more in-depth study of professional accounting. Afterwards, I stayed in Australia to start at my career. I’ve been working in the finance team for the fashion and beauty industry ever since. In 2019, I moved from Sydney to the UK and have been working in my current role ever since.
So, I will talk a bit about what I’m doing right now. I’m working in the accounting, research and policies team on financial reporting. It's a really interesting team. So, have you heard of IFRS 16?
Cate: I haven’t no, tell our listeners.
Fabiana: I specialize in lease accounting. IFRS 16 is the accounting standards, specifically focused on leases. With leases we're talking about, with Chanel, for example, about our leases for the fashion boutique, leases for department store, leases for office and warehouse etc. My responsibility is to give solution and instructions and answers to all the queries and questions when it comes to all the entities across the globe related to the accounting perspective of leases. I’ll give you some examples, it sounds really broad. So, for example, I might have question coming from France, say they have this new fashion boutique lease. So, what is the best way they need to do to enter into their system they're dealing with the leases. Or, for example, Singapore might reach out to me and ask their lease has this extension option that they can extend for a few years. Under the accounting standard, what is the right treatment and stuff like that. I normally would talk to many different countries and entities across the globe, every day, so that's very exciting.
Cate: That's really exciting. When you were studying and just within your personal life, were you always interested in working within the fashion industry? What made you choose to work in-house at an organization, rather than going to one of the Big Four or one of the larger accountancy firms?
Fabiana: I would say, well, not from day one that I was like, okay I’m going to work in this area with fashion, I’m going to do accounting. That's definitely not true. I think like every other student, I wasn’t sure on what I wanted to do when I entered my degree, say when I was in school, being a student. I actually started in the internships in Big Four accounting firms. When I was in China and Australia, I took both of my internships in KPMG and EY. In both audit and tax. So, at that time, just like everyone else, I was like okay I’m going to go down this track, I’m going to do my internship and then I’m going to join the accounting firms and then carry forward like that. I wasn't sure.
However, there was one day I got this opportunity to work with Gucci Australia in their finance team. That actually changed a lot of my perspective, so I think that's the first time I realized accounting can be so much more exciting than just dealing with numbers and dealing with the technical stuff. Just imagine if you go into your work and then like you open your emails, it's not just numbers and technical terms, they're like runway shows and they're like product lines, you'd be like wow your job can be so much more fun compared to just dealing with numbers.
I think from that point on, I decided a job is not just a job. You can combine your interests with your skills and your proficiency. It's from that point, I decided to change my career decision and join the fashion industry as an in-house accountant.
Cate: That's amazing. What you said about a job is more than just a job, we spend so much of our lives at work that it's really important to find something that interests you. Yes, you can work in a job that's not interesting, but will it really make you happy? And if you're going to be spending so many hours of your week and of your life at work, it's so much easier to work for something that you are passionate about and that you're interested in. It sounds really exciting, and I mean, talking about runway shows and getting to work on leases and things within the fashion industry and knowing that what you're doing is having a big impact on something that you're really passionate about. It must be really thrilling, not least to mention the fact that you do have a truly international career. You've gone from China to Australia and, yes, it was for your studies, but then you worked in Australia and now you're working in London and you're dealing with people within your organization and probably outside as well in lots of different countries on any given day. That's the definition of an international career and it sounds like you're living the dream.
Fabiana: Thank you. I totally agree with you, because I think I was just talking about with my colleague the other day. You spend how many hours at work every single day and you spend more time at work, compared to being with your spouse, being your children, so you must need to do something that your heart says is right, so that's very important. In terms of international careers, I think this is the best thing that's ever happened, not just the fashion industry, it's the fact that you can interact with a lot of people from different cultures, from different countries. That's actually not just a job, it also builds you up as a person. I think that's very important.
Cate: Definitely, it sounds really thrilling and really fulfilling as well. You've touched on this already, but what do you think are the main benefits of being an in-house accountant versus working for one of the larger companies, or a Big Four, kind of traditional methods.
Fabiana: I think there are a number of different benefits. Number one, I would say is, you get to understand more of the operational side of the business. So, say for example, when you work with the Big Four accounting firms, say, if you work as an auditor you look into the financials and you interact with the finance team to make sure the numbers and the financials are correct. So, you're facing probably only the finance team. But when you work as in house accounting, you interact with more stakeholders, I would say. For example, you would talk to the sales team, you talk to the PR team, you would talk to the marketing team, etc. You have more broad understanding of how different team has an impact on the business and on your financials so actually give you more understanding of the operational side of the business which actually can help you probably make a bigger impact on the business itself. So that's number one.
Number two, I would say, it helps you to build up your skillset. Of course, Big Four helps you build up your skillset for sure as well. But also working in in-house accounting, you probably work in different tasks. An example is when I started with being a financial analyst in Napoleon Perdis, which is one of the biggest cosmetic brands in Australia. When I was working there, I did many different tasks. I didn't just do the accounting thing which is prepare the financials. I also did their budgeting and analysis for sales, labour costs, cash forecasts. And also dealing with the banks etc. All these other aspects of the tasks actually help to understand your strengths and your weaknesses, which can help you. When you find a mixture, you think about okay, what is my strength which can applies to you for the future of your career. So, that's number two.
Number three I would say is you have a chance to explore many different opportunities, I think we've touched base on the international experience. For example, working in Chanel, we have many, many different teams, even just within finance. So I’ve seen accountants moving from financial reporting roles to FP&A, which is financial planning and analysis. I’ve seen accountants moving from financial reporting to the project team, managing different types of projects and moving to the system team, dealing with accounting systems, etc. So, you have actually many different routes right in front of you once you get into the job. Versus in an accounting firm, you can choose to go to different industries and down the track, but I would say, the people I work with, most of them are coming from Big Four accounting firms so moving into industry is the destination of a lot of accountants. So when you are in there to start with, you can see many routes in front of you. It helps you to plan out your future as well.
Cate: I think it sounds really exciting, it sounds like it's really versatile and no day is exactly the same, who you're interacting with is completely different and it sounds like the opportunities are much more endless, in terms of getting to work on different projects and getting to work within different teams and with different individuals. I think all of that helps broaden your experiences and broaden your mindset like you said, it helps enhance your skillset as well, so that in the long run your capabilities and careers are really versatile. And your career path, then, is a really unique one as well, because you have so many different opportunities presented to you.
As well as that, if you find something from a career side of things that you're interested in, like accountancy, but then from the personal side of things that you're interested in, like an interest in fashion, I’d imagine getting to merge those two things together is really fulfilling and you get to be at the forefront of something that you're naturally interested in.
What does that what does being a CPA Member and mean to you?
Fabiana: Being a CPA member is actually really important to me. I would say two aspects. Number one is, so, when I graduated, when I opened the job market website and even just leaned in a trying to find a role, a lot of the roles even is just entry level. They probably don't require to be CPA qualified, but a lot of senior roles definitely do require to be CPA qualified, ACC qualified etc. So, even just when I was starting out, I had already become a member at that time, I was not qualified but I signed myself up at that time already. It actually helped me to open more doors to different industries and companies, because even though you're not qualified at that time, if the employer knows that you are going down that path, they will have more interest in you, because say 2,3,4 years time after you move from the junior role and more senior role, they will expect you to be qualified already. It says that you're going down that path, and preparing for it, they will be more likely to invest more in you and also offer you the role because they know that you will be up there one day. So, that's number one.
Number two is being a CPA really helps me for international transition. So, for myself, because I have education background in both China and Australia, but I have no education background in the UK. Well, I have a summer school experience but that doesn't count. That is not proper background education background. Actually just to move from one country to the other without any certificate, or a degree etc. is not as easy. But with CPA is very recognized internationally. With that certificate it helps me transit from Sydney to London much easier. It saved me a lot of time and effort trying to find a job versus, I could just use my certificate and to knock on the door of the job here.
Cate: That's fantastic. You said that you were already a member, when you finished your studies, before you were qualified. Did you have a student membership or what did that entail?
Fabiana: So, for CPA it's a journey where, when you signed up you become a member, but you're not qualified. To be able to qualify, you need to do six subjects plus three years of work experience. When I graduated, I signed up for anytime you become a member, a member that will show, you're in that path but you're not qualified. Qualified meaning you've already finished all the exams plus you've had experience, then you become qualified. So, when I say the student membership, it's more like as a starting point of being qualified.
Cate: So, it means that you're working towards that qualification. It signals to employers that you are working towards that qualification, and you will one day be CPA qualified. This has just been a really insightful conversation, for me, in particular, but I know so many of our students who study accounting and finance, and also those who are looking at qualifying later and working at some of the larger firms. When you think of accounting and finance so many of our students think that it is just the Big Four or the larger firms, and I think it's been really nice to chat to you and get a broader perspective and to hear that there are lots of different options, but also for those students who maybe want an opportunity to have an international career. A degree in accountancy and then getting CPA qualified can give you that, it opens up the doors for lots of different opportunities. Obviously, you have to still work hard for them, I’m not saying you don't. But there are options, it's not a case of when you finish, you go and sit you sit behind a desk in one sitting and you stay there forever. There are opportunities to travel and experience different things and see the world in a different way and get experienced with different companies in different industries as well
Thank you for that it's been really, really insightful. Just before we finish up, I have one last question for you, and that would be, what advice would you give to any current students regarding starting their career in accounting and if they're considering becoming a CPA Member?
Fabiana: I will give three advice.
Number one is when you're starting out as a student it's very important that you focus on learning. When you enter the job market, focus on learning and not the pay itself. Just for accounting itself, we're seeing a lot of changes in the industry, for example, the basic accounting roles are being eliminated. For example, the basic bookkeeping, or journal entry posting, these jobs are being replaced by machines and accounting systems. The skill set that is required nowadays is focusing more on your soft skills and also your skill with dealing with accounting systems. For example, soft skills would be communication skills, critical thinking skills, problem solving skills, these are very important. In terms of dealing with accounting systems, these will be, for example, system automation, how to implement an accounting system in a business. These are really ‘hot’ skills as I would say and required nowadays.
Number two is, I think we've touched base many times already, explore the job market where there is international companies and international opportunities. When you’re starting out, especially if you want international experience, it will be much easier for you if you enter an international company, because most of the time for international companies, it has internal mobility opportunities. For example, Chanel is very open and transparent that this market, that part of the work is having a job opening. So, if you want to apply, you can talk to HR, you can just apply directly. It will save you a lot of trouble than just randomly going to a company that you don't know and knock on their door that you want a job.
On top of that, an international company means there are more roles opening inside the company where it means you can build up many different skillsets and you can move roles much easier in different teams vs if you want to have a career change or a different job than if you're working for a smaller or domestic company. You would probably have to go for another company.
Number three would be when you start out, always think about what you want to achieve in the future. I would say, every single role that you take is a building block of the next one. So, when you choose a role, you should not just choose any job that's easy to get or your friend is doing that, but more who do you want to become in the future or what type of person you see yourself being, and to work backwards of what type of role I would need to take right now to build up the skill set so that I can become that person in the future. I think these are all really quality problems that you can think of, from day one when you start out.
Cate: Definitely. You’ve given such good advice there. I think it's really important, you made it in point in one, of saying that so many roles are being eliminated. I think the students that are with us here at Birmingham today, we're not necessarily training for specific roles. We're now training for specific skill sets and specific qualities and, obviously, there are certain rules that are very specific that aren’t going anywhere. Technology is advancing at such a high speed that so many roles that are in existence now aren't going to be here in 20 years time. So, it's really important that you focus on adaptability and learning as much as you can and making yourself irreplaceable by technology for the time being at least. Also, it's really important to look at, like you say, who do you want to be and work back from there. I think, especially this time of year when we have students who are just finishing and everyone is in a scramble to secure a job, it's important to think about what you want to do. That's not to say that if you enter into a job and you decide later that it's not for you, that it's too late. There are always opportunities to change path. But every decision that you make can help shape and mould who you become. So, it's really important to focus on who you want to become.
Fabiana, thank you so much for talking to me today. It was really interesting to hear about your journey. I think it's something that so many people don't even think is possible or don't consider. When you think about careers in accounting, so many people think of it as one very specific way and you've shown us today that it's very versatile and there are lots of different career options for those who are interested in accountancy. So, we really appreciate your time, it's been really interesting talking to you today. Thank you.
Fabiana: No worries I’m always happy to share.