Transcript of podcast episode, with Susann Kunz from Siemens and Ka Ho Mok from the winning team
Podcast episode length: 42:47
Cate: Welcome, everybody, to the most recent edition of Career Talk. My name is Cate Linforth and I am co-hosted today by the wonderful Bob Lee from the B-Enterprising team. Hi Bob. And we are really excited because this episode is all about boot camps and in particular one boot camp that we recently ran here at the University of Birmingham jointly with Siemens. So we're very lucky to be joined by Susann Kunz from Siemens. Hi, Susann.
Susann: Hi, everyone.
Cate: Thank you for joining us. And we are also really excited because we are joined by Ka Ho Mok from the winning team from the boot camp. So Mok Ho, welcome. Thank you for joining us.
Mok Ho: Thank you. Yeah, thank you for inviting me.
Cate: So give us a little bit of background, Bob. Do you want to talk a little bit about what a boot camp is and kind of what we do at the University of Birmingham with boot camps? Because this wasn't our first boot camp, but this one was a really special one.
Bob: Sure. Yes. So my role is I work in the B-Enterprising team, very exciting role because we see so much innovation, University of Birmingham students and graduates. Boot camp format that we have it's almost like an innovative project that students can work on. So it taps into the entrepreneurial mindset developing back to the student and the graduate to beyond the kind of things that involved problems, writing solutions, working teams, lots of teamwork going on, almost overcoming hurdles, if you like. A real mixed bag of almost like reputation. Be a life if you like. So it's like trying to solve a problem or creating products maybe, and delivering a pitch at the end of it. So it's quite an exciting mixed bag of everything in there and it's great to see students from different disciplines. Imagine how students working on different courses within university coming together, which doesn't always happen as well. The end goal is to create this final pitch and present it to panel, to see, to see how well you did.
Cate: I think that's really great and it's like you said, it kind of emulates what happens in real life and some of the challenges and hurdles that we go through in our working environments. And it's just a really nice experience, a really intense experience to get an opportunity for some, some actual real world kind of in job experiences. Susann, can you tell me a little bit about your perspective from Siemens in terms of why you guys wanted to participate in the bootcamp and what you were hoping to kind of get out of it from an organisational point of view?
Susann: Yeah, of course. So I'm part of the global marketing team and I'm driving academic initiatives all around the world that say and you know, it comes down to essentially providing software. So that's our business. So if we think of future talent, of course we want to prep them as best we can for their future jobs. And so it's also in our interest that they are not knowing how to download the software in the end. But most of all, it's important to, you know, to guide them how to use the software and to really experience in the end what you can yeah, what you can do, what you can create with the help of the software. So let's be honest, if you would just give this task to the students, which was, you know, design a piece of garden furniture, what would have been the result in the end? Maybe some drafts, maybe a nice PowerPoint, but that's it. But to be, you know, to really come up with the concepts that could be in the end, the manufactured, you need to have an excellent tool. And that's what we are providing the students. And also we provided kind of training. So to really get the students prepped to do the task best they can. So for us, it's really, you know, leveraging these creative mindsets for students to be able to come up with really innovative concepts that can be useful also for their future professional lives.
Cate: And I think it's we have we have a video that we're going to link to with this podcast and all the pages. So anyone who's listening, there will be an opportunity to see what the bootcamp was all about, you know, and see some of the, some of the collaboration that happened, but also see some of I can't stress enough just, you know, when students started this project, they hadn't used the software before. Is that correct? Mok Ho, you never used the solid edge software before?
Mok Ho: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've used like the CAD software. I mean, for this particular CAD software from the team and I have never used it before and we literally just downloaded in the boot camp.
Cate: Anyone who will see what came about after the bootcamp and as a result of the bootcamp, you know, we're all just kind of blown away by how much progress was made in a three day period. Mok Ho, can you tell us a little bit about your experience in terms as like why you wanted to participate in the bootcamp to begin with, but also
Mok Ho: So for my like why I joined their boot camp actually this and expect such a diverse business aspect from the thing and at first point like it's all it actually came so it will be like just a CAD competition or just say product drawing design competition. But in the end, when we look at the matching scheme, we find out that quite a lot of stress on the competition is actually about the marketing aspect. Like now we need to produce the market needs and also a business plan and also how we promote it. And that's really surprised me.
Susann: And sorry, Cate, if I, if I want to focus on this a bit more because I think that was also for us important, you know, not just focus on chat, but really to let the students develop a complete concept. And Mok Ho already told you, you know, so it was also about developing a business plan to come up with a marketing plan. So essentially they did also create an Instagram account where they put in some pictures. And that was also, you know, possible because they had some rendering images that were created in the software. So they also, you know, took the best of the software capabilities and used it in multiple ways to develop a whole concept around the product.
Bob: And Mok Ho, can I just jump in there? Because I wanted to paint a picture, I think listening. So day one, you come in fresh to it. You know that you've got this program coming up ahead. How is the dynamic when you first meet the team by? How quickly did you form this sort of partnership and what team work ethic did it take? What was the story?
Mok Ho: Yeah, sure. I found that team quite good because different from like academic project or online coursework, this one is really people sign up and solve like out of their time and in their holiday they pay their time and effort to join the things. So I think everyone in the team is quite engaged it and they all want to win and especially I think that Simmons in the beginning of the we can mention there some sort of cash prize if you win the competition and that's going to keep him up there and hired him to do it better. Yeah. So yeah, he's playing quite well. And, and I'm also impressed by the diversity of team like I, first of all, I like these kind of competition will only be about designs or engineering department students but in have we got we got students from science subjects also and also like from medical health care science practice. So yeah that's really impressed on me.
Cate: And I think that's it's so key to point that out is that when you work with students that aren't from your degree program, it opens up a whole nother layer of perspective and kind of insight. And I'm not saying you can't get that with students that are in the same similar degree programs that that you're in. But it's just it gives a whole level of diversity, lots of different backgrounds and people that, you know, when you don't choose the team that you're working in, I think it really opens you up to a much more diverse experience. And so I think that's really one of the benefits of the bootcamp as well. And Mok Ho, you touched upon kind of when you when you said about your reason for joining was was to get more insight into Siemens because they are such a well-known global company. And that's another real benefit is you get three days worth of experience working with an employee. You get to meet people who actually work for the organisation, learn more about how the organisation runs. So bootcamps are kind of a multifaceted approach. It's not just about engaging with an employer or working with different students, but most importantly you get this real sense of entrepreneurship and you get that real entrepreneurial mindset. And that's something that we talk a lot about within careers. But we try and we try and integrate that enterprising mindset into a lot of our coursework. And we work with academics on creating modules for, you know, entrepreneurial engagement as well. But I think that entrepreneurial mindset isn't just beneficial if you're going on to start your own organisation, it kind of benefits when you enter the world of work. If you start working for an organisation, that entrepreneurial mindset and that innovation is really critical for success in a lot of different ways. Susann, what's your take on entrepreneurial mindset within your organisation, but also how does it benefit students and recent graduates to have that?
Susann: Yeah, I think it's important to encourage students that this is an option for them to take or root for them to take in the future. Because, you know, one way is, of course, you know, entering maybe Siemens as an employee. So this could be also an option. But, you know, by providing such a bootcamp experience, you really find out, you know, all you really get to know that is it's it is possible to become an entrepreneur to maybe find your own start-up. If you see that within three days, you can really come up with an awesome concept that, you know right now just needs to be manufactured to, to be on the market. And so even if Mok Ho and his team is maybe currently not deciding to fund his own business, but, you know, by just taking a step into that start-up world, it becomes more possible for everyone to think of this way in the future. So and maybe just to add another point here, we are also having a start-up program, just to mention this. So if everyone is feeling ready to take the next step, founding his own business, we have a start-up program in place which you can access on the Siemens dot com slash start-up and so you can apply easily for the start-up program. It's also worldwide available. We have, I think over 3000 start-ups right now in the program and you can get the software one year for free and of course, marketing support as well. So I think it's also important for young businesses to partner with Siemens. In that regard and to get as much support as they can get.
Cate: I think that you've kind of hit the nail on the head there. We work a lot with young start-ups and students who are considering starting their own businesses. And I think that if you've never kind of seriously thought about creating your own business or if you've never kind of ventured down that path, it can seem really daunting as well. But there is support available, whether it's through organisations like Siemens that have these huge programs or here at the university we have start-up support available and we've got our incubator space. I think it's really crucial to kind of get that message across that if you've got the idea and if you've got the motivation and you believe in your idea, there is support available to help kind of turn that into reality. And that's really it's really beneficial for the economy as well. I think, you know, when you look at countries that have big start-up initiatives or entrepreneurial funding or where the population has a real entrepreneurial mindset, I think there's a lot more innovation going on, a lot more global business innovation going on, too. Mok Ho I don't know if you just want to talk a little bit about kind of how you came up with your idea of, well, first of all, I mean, the four of us on this podcast, we know what your idea was. But do you want to tell listeners a little bit about the concept that your team came up with and kind of walk us through that process a little bit?
Mok Ho: Yeah. Yeah, of course. So our idea that they're the product that we design is called Capsule. So it's actually like a compact and like all in one gather the furniture. So it's hard to describe it with, well, this one is actually a ball shape this thing and it got two chairs together like with two chairs that together that's not enough. We add a umbrella and a table in the middle of it. So actually it's just like a full thing. But when you disambiguate and bear believe in your guide and it will become to a chair, a table and also a like some, some contractor's umbrella, something like a large umbrella. And so, yeah, this is the idea and, and like how we come up with the idea of hats. So, so we, we actually quite short go at first too because of the tie time training like the whole competition is just four days and we do come up with the idea and also design it and also produce a marketing strategy. So actually we have some others idea at first, but, but we need to design whether or not we use the idea to explore on more different idea. So for this particular idea, we actually start by chance in the lecture room and we find out that the mall shaped channel is quite good and therefore we, we build a design based on that and we also look into different things such as like the fish bowl from Hong Kong. So it's actually a, a straight food that and you got a bamboo thing to go into a, a food that is like a Capsule or something like that. But then we took that like we take the bamboo stick at the end umbrella and the bowl as the fish bowl. And then we come up with the final idea.
Bob: I have to say, actually, it's something I have never seen. Actually, it's very innovative in the design. It's something that, you know, when you see it, if you have the chance to see it, it's very impressive to say. And I think Susann will agree, that the reaction of the design was such a positive one within Siemens.
Susann: Of course. And I think now we encourage everyone to watch the video right? No we are all blown away by this concept. And the whole team was so impressed. And that's why we also invited, yeah, the students to come to custom events too. But then this year and we had Mok Ho present in front of our customers and our whole team again this concept and you know, I think that's also a way to take it. I know Birmingham is quite a well-known university also worldwide, but you know, it's still was a local contest. But taking this contest idea and the result in the end and giving the students the opportunity to present their concept. Also elsewhere in Germany, also last week, we did a technical tech talk, student tech talk, an online tech talk. So really, you know, giving as much as awareness as we can as Siemens to this great concept and to the students is also a way, you know, not only putting the students and their concept on stage, but also letting other students know what's possible, what's out there to really leverage their creative mindset.
Cate: I'm just blown away by everything that has kind of happened since the event as well. And I'm sure Mok Ho, when you were kind of signing up to the bootcamp and you heard that there was a cash prize and you said that everyone kind of got really enthusiastic and competitive about that. You probably didn't ever think that it was going to go much beyond. I mean, the cash prize would have been wonderful enough, but all of these other opportunities that have come from the boot camp, tell us kind of what that's meant to you and kind of what how that's impacted your experience?
Mok Ho: Yeah, sure. So first of all, like, oh, they're going to like rallying with Siemens. I think that is a very beneficial experience for me. And like I really get to know about that particular company like Simmons, like how they run everything there in L.A. It's basically like Siemens different department share about their product and how they use their product with the industrial partners. And in this kind of event, you can't really know what they do exactly like from outside their perspective, because we know Simmons do different things like trains, like I have candy thighs, but in the end, like how they design it or how they come up with the idea and how their team work together, that's really something that you need to add up close enough in order to get an idea of. And I think one of the thing that I'm impressed the most is if there is that after the boot camp, I got a confidence to really develop my own product, like because the whole weekend, the whole show is about to develop a product and it's not only a product but really a full commercial. Find out how to sell it and how to promote it. So, so with this we can like after then as we got the support from, from the, from the judging team and they provide us feedback too and, and like because like when we were submitting our we Joey didn't find that it is really that good but after something that they with everyone saying that is good we now go is like more confidence in believing that the idea that even Seth student made can be good and it also can we come in a show viable so that's really give us that confidence in just like having either idea or developing other product in the future.
Bob: I have to say actually, I think hearing anything that makes me think that the boot camp format, this enterprise boot camp students can take, it really creates opportunities, really. It's not just you go to the program, you have an end point. There's almost the continuation. It's creating connections from both sides, in fact, say the same. And obviously that I don't think because imagine that would have been this outcome to this extra part to it. It's not just like you win the prize, it you're done. You have these lasting connections. I'm sure you know you're still in contact with your team-mates and you develop this. This is bound if you like. So I think it's almost that continuation of that commitment that what's next opportunities can follow and that doesn't need to stop at any point. I can continue and continue going in all sorts of directions. I hope you’ll agree with me that of that that’s the case with your team and where you find yourself?
Mok Ho: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. We went met like new friends through that especially for like this kind of friend is not from our faculty. So we often like don't really have a chance to meet them or if we were not participating in these kind of events that we at this.
Susann: Cate for us, of course it's also great sense to look out for new tenants you know. Of course, you know, and these partnerships or these relationships are so personal that, you know, I'm running also other countries like best in Europe you're right competition and you know, there are always students that reach out to me to ask, you know, is there work and student job or something else? So if you once connect to Siemens, you connect to real people in the end. And so there will always be a way moving forward, you know, after finalising your university career, maybe to step maybe into Siemens and then those contexts might be quite useful. So that is also a reason why I would encourage students to participate in such competitions.
Cate: And I think that's kind of similar to what we say for students who are interested in an internship as well. It really gives you an opportunity to make connections with people from an organisation to network and more than just what you would get at a career fair or if you go to kind of a recruitment event or something, you know, these are extended periods of time where you actually get to know colleagues from an organisation and get to experience first-hand how an organisation works. Are real opportunities for students to figure out if the organisation is something that they're interested in working for and seeing if it's the right fit from their perspective, but also to network and to showcase your own skills as a student body who you are and see, you know, impress an employer. It's that extended we call it like an extended interview when we're talking about internships, but it's the same as with bootcamps. You get to make real connections with people that work for the organisation and have influence and you know, Mok Ho, these experiences that you're getting off the back of the boot camp, we're just kind of blown away by the global exposure and the networking. And then, you know, when you're talking about how it's given you that confidence to develop your own ideas and to make connections with your peers who are in different courses as well. All of these things are really helpful for you as you start to think about what you want to do after your studies and kind of that career journey. All of these things are huge kind of building blocks for where you'll be when you decide to kind of start your career. Have you thought about what you want to do after your studies? And how has your experience with Siemens and kind of with the bootcamp impacted your perceptions on maybe what you thought you wanted to do before versus what kind of direction you're thinking of going in now?
Mok Ho: Yeah. Yeah. And so, so like I think after that boot camp, I know much more about Siemens and, and that's really good for me. Like, for example, like before I'm, I'm interested in Siemens, but I sometimes I'll have some worries that like Siemens is their company is too big and maybe there's sort of bureaucracy inside and they might do things that were like some misconception like that, that in the boot camp, like they have staff from the Solid Edge department who like guide through the boot camp and also teach us how to use them. The software and also in the realising life in Berlin, we really get the chance to know about how they work and the employees in there. And actually one of the thing that I'm quite surprised at is that even though they are in such a big company that they work in small and close team and they treat each other like friends and the vibe the feeling really good, like their whole team is really dedicated to their project. And that's really that is really good. And, and inside the boot camp, one of the section that I think that impressed me is that like few of their employees who develop Solid Edge, they ask about their customers, like how they feel about the product. And it's not just basic, like, is it good like all or whether you like it, but it really comes down to different functions and different patterns where they place it. And what they do is that they really invite the, the customers who use that product to talk with them. And I found that the whole team is really passionate about their thing. And that's what I really like. And, and that's make me, like, feel more confident, seem to like working in such a large company, like with knowing what they do in the end and what they do in their reality. And that's really give me confidence into joining this kind of company in the future.
Susann: I really want to thank you for this, you know, perception, because in the end, there are many perceptions about Siemens, but in the end, it all comes down to people. And also in such big companies as Siemens, they are working real, real people and really humans like me, for instance. And for me, it was also very important to give you as much support as I could. You remember we went through the presentation for the tech talk many times because I think, you know, with my expertise, I can support you in multiple ways, you know, and if I can do that, of course. You know, I, I, I do everything to, to give you the last tip to make it even more perfect in the end.
Cate: I think, you know, from an outsider's perspective, it's really nice to see kind of the relationship development between Siemens and the winning team and kind of what has evolved. And I think it shows a lot about Siemens as an organisation as well in terms of being able to expand on what the boot camp was and you know, present more opportunities or kind of evolve more opportunities off the back of that bootcamp. I think it shows that you really are kind of an innovative organisation that's willing to try new things and kind of develop people and you're interested in developing people. And I think that's something that Mok Ho you know, you might not have you might have found that out if you hadn't done the bootcamp, but you certainly get that first-hand experience by doing the bootcamp. And it's a great way to break down some misconceptions and learn more first-hand about an organisation. I just think if we're talking about what the benefits are of the bootcamp, there are so many different levels in which they are beneficial both to organisations and to students. But in terms of skills development, in terms of relationship building, in terms of networking, there's just there are so many winds to it. And when you think about the fact that the bootcamp was a relatively short amount of time, you know, all of this happened within three days and the benefits are still kind of being presented. I think that really speaks for itself in terms of why students should try a bootcamp. And I think I guess this is kind of a question for everyone, but what would you say to students who are maybe on the fence or think, oh, well, I'm not from an engineering background, say they were, you know, going back in time and thinking about joining this boot camp in particular. If they weren't from an engineering background or didn't really know if it was enough for them or what the benefits would be for them, what would you what would you say to that?
Susann: I think everyone can contribute something. You know, everyone can bring something to the table. And I think currently in the discussion that we are talking much about diversity. But in the end, you know, this bootcamp proved in the end that diversity is really important to really come up with an innovative concept. And we talked about this previously as well with Mok Ho. I think the results wouldn't have been the same if there weren't students from other disciplines, if there would have been only engineers, maybe having done an awesome design, but maybe not knowing how to communicate it, how to put it in a beautiful movie in a video. So I think you need all the skills, all the tenants on one table to really create awesome results.
Mok Ho: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think like for this kind of cross discipline, like activities that do in from different priorities that everyone can really use that that happens inside. Like of course, I think like throughout that we can we also got like ten other different things and there were about 50 student and they also got good design too. But I think what really sets us apart from other teams, it really the marketing aspect of it and also the we that we produce and when you think of like marketing or producing our video, it like really doesn't matter whether or not you come from my engineering background and sometimes you even do better if you are from a business degree. And, and I think that is exactly what it is and say like everyone can also contribute. I think like even if me like from a computer science or engineering background, if I goes to a business boot camp and maybe I can have them to write an app or do some CAD design, and yet and so like in the end it doesn't matter. Like everyone can also contribute to the team and, and really like the diversity can, can increase the outcome too. Like and other than the diversity in the subject I want to say is that also is stem diversity from different countries and location. So actually in our team aside from British we also got the like from Hong Kong and also some from Japan. And, and that's really stimulates how we developed the idea, like what I mentioned before about the fish bowl and, and also them. The other thing is that we also use and qu in in our design this is actually had just been is toy which I go when they touch it a magnetic thing. And we also took that into our bar shape and then expose our design. So yeah, yeah. And, and that's really important that we have students from different countries and backgrounds.
Bob: I really think you both answer that perfectly, I think. I agree with both of you. The boot camp is a celebration of uniqueness. You know, it brings out the skills that you already have. It's not about sort of finding new things, you know, developing your entrepreneur that you already have. So I view it as a format to celebration of just finding what's going to happen, working at the same time to harness them and get this product from that all together.
Cate: And we talk a lot about diversity on this podcast, but just generally in, in kind of my role with international employers. And I think when we work with international students and careers, we talk a lot about how they can showcase their uniqueness and showcase their international perspective and to offer kind of a different a different element and a different perspective to whether that be the job search or to group projects or on your CV. And I think it's so important to showcase diversity, whether it's diversity of degree, program or diversity of nationality. I think the more diverse of a team you get in, whether it's an organisation or like I said, in a group project or or anything, the better your outcomes are going to be because it stops being an echo chamber of people that have the same experiences and perspectives and starts offering a really global mindset. And I think when we look at, you know, the world of work now, everyone will end up having some sort of international experience, whether they work for a global company or they have international colleagues or they work with clients in a different country. The likelihood is, is that most people entering the workforce now will have some sort of global element to their job. And I think that's really important that we showcase and celebrate that diversity. One of the things that I was really interested in when I was hearing about the boot camp that kind of caught me by surprise is that when the groups I heard that when the groups were working kind of in their teens, when they had time to kind of develop the project, there was a lot of collaboration between the teams as well, and the teams were kind of helping each other out. That's something that I really wasn't expecting. When you hear of the nature of a competition, you'd think that all of the teams would be kind of insular and really guarded and want to just, you know, be successful by themselves and not really share. Mok Ho can you tell me a little bit about how you find that from that experience and what you thought of the collaboration between the teams?
Mok Ho: Exactly like at first I didn't thought they would be like collaboration cross team to like of course they would be collaboration within team members but like vibration outside of team was really out of my mind. Like I'm like usually like in competition online cause like I think everyone would try to do their best by their own team and I think their why for this weekend like everyone seems to be quite okay to share the idea with others and also have others. And I think maybe that is two thing like principle is that maybe that has seems like very break for us and we're all quite shocked and like because we have been used this whole career and people and now we need to develop this software I use all the tools in Zion also produce a video and we were really shocked that and we all thought that we can compete it and also so therefore we don't mind to help each other out to see and I think that would comes that can also help us to like it is not just say to our section VR section, but it is like to our section in the morning and then it's like six hour to work in a classroom all atrophic time together. So, so during all the time, like with the lunch time or our breaks, you really get to know each other. And that was their name, what they do and, and this really encourage people to help each other. I was like, we, we are not like competitive anymore. Like we are friends and, and so, so therefore we help each other and we have with each other like different things to like about, for example, using the software I like, which I tend can somehow make, is hard to search online. But if someone next to you is quite good and we even share our ideas here, like we, we show others our sketches, our design on there. Solid Edge and this really stimulates the whole thing. And you, by the way, the outcome of our teams.
Cate: I just think that's fantastic is something that I really wasn't expecting. You know, when you talk about competition, you expect that to be much more kind of competitive nature. But I think that collaboration really speaks to the nature of the event and the idea and skill sharing and kind of what the team at Siemens and also the team, the B-Enterprising team and careers kind of fostered in terms of collaboration and really that shared experience.
Bob: Definitely. And I think also for University of Birmingham students and graduates hearing this, that there are so many opportunities to get involved with. There are multiple boot camps that the team offer - obviously work with fantastic employees like Siemens and is such a bonus really. But to me that's the kind of model that we have that you can come, you know, you walk into a room, no one knows each other, total strangers and people make connections very quickly and before, you know, you're developing ideas and coming up with wonderful things. And it's fantastic to watch from the side from my point of view, working as a university staff member that you get to see these fantastic ideas and it like a fly on the wall, seeing these different ideas and how people change them, or there's conflict sometimes, but then they come up with a new idea and they do. Turning to ideas that can be launched a market. They can be actual physical ideas that can be developed into a business. So it's almost like two sides to it really - develop the enterprising skills to help people develop that in an entrepreneur, if that's the word or ‘Intrapreneur’ with an ‘I’, that’s the other word, that's to work in an organisation. But you know, so many times we see ideas develop so much that they become businesses. We've had cases of people who are strangers, but two or three people, people work together and become co-founders. So there’s so many fascinating stories at UoB Elevate incubator space within Birmingham City Centre. There's 38 start-ups working in the centre of Birmingham and there is a real mix of different ideas, ideas, engineering, all sorts of things, different disciplines. And my job is so good. It's just that I love my job because it's almost about storytelling and sharing these ideas with people. And some of them are amazing. They really blow your mind. And just to bring it back to the Siemens, the bootcamp for Mok Ho and his team, it’s such an eye opener to see the results at the end of it, it really does blow your mind I’m not just saying this. If you look at the idea that this is it, this is jaw dropping and it's such a good idea that you haven't seen before when it just comes out of it like a three day program. And I think that's the bit that always gets me that I think, wow, there’s so much talent out there. It's incredible.
Susann: And to follow up on your thoughts. I think also, you know, if you see what can be done with just within three days, I think then what's possible within just when you're maybe, you know, it's so encouraging for others to just take the software. And by the way, for me, it's also good to hear back that we did not expect too much to offer the software for three days only and students were still capable. So it's also good proof point for us that the software is really good and it's shaped well enough to be able to be a good working tool for the students. You know, that's also good confirmation for us that this is the case. And I think also, you know, after the pandemic, it probably was also very good to connect in-person for the students because I you know, myself, I experienced I was kind of longing for real exchange meeting people. So I think probably the students really enjoyed being together in a group and not thinking on various but maybe rather, you know, to connect with each other.
Cate: And just the whole thing is it just sounds like it's a real resounding success and just showcases what can happen in a short amount of time. If you put a group of people together who, you know, are working towards the same goal. And Mok Ho, I know that you said there are no plans right now for the capsule system to go to market. But, you know, I would be very interested in one for my garden. And I'm sure a lot of people who have seen your product would think the same. I just wanted to thank everyone for kind of sharing your experiences and your insight. Siemens thank you so much for collaborating on this boot camp to begin with, because it's just such a wonderful example of kind of what can happen if students just try out something new and put their minds to it. And Mok Ho, thank you for sharing your experience and kind of continuing to go down that road following on from the boot camp.
Susann: Thank you for that conversation. Was really a pleasure talking with you about the whole project again.
Cate: It's been great hearing about it and for anyone who's listening, we will have a link to the video, but also there's a blog post I believe as well on the boot camp. So you can find out a bit more and also you can find out a bit more on the B-Enterprising website in terms of what future boot camps we've got going on. And for anyone interested in starting your own business, we've got support available at University of Birmingham. I know Siemens have support as well, as Susann mentioned, for start-ups as well. And Mok Ho, we wish you the best of luck as you continue on this journey.
Mok Ho: Thank you.
Cate: Thank you, everyone. It was nice chatting to you.